Dr. El Agamy of Egyptian origin and his Dutch wife, Antoinette, have spent the last 40 years living in Switzerland and raising their three daughters, Farida, Ramia, and Shereen. Following a successful career in international multinationals and as independent advisor, Dr. El Agamy together with his wife and daughters founded the Tharawat Family Business Forum, a network dedicated to the sustainability of Arab family firms and Tharawat magazine a global publication for family business good practice in 2008. Farida and Ramia El Agamy established the headquarters of both the association and the magazine in the UAE and Switzerland and the sisters have been working together and for their family ever since.
Can you tell us something about your background: Where and how did you grow up?
Farida: We were born and raised in the Swiss-German part of Switzerland by our Dutch mother and our Egyptian father. I studied law in Fribourg and was admitted to the Swiss bar in 2008. Ramia studied management sciences and later moved to the UK to go to business school for her Masters degree.
When and how was your family business started? Which generation is currently leading the business?
Ramia: My father and mother have always been entrepreneurs, and for most of our lives we have been involved in their activities in one way or another. However, setting up Tharawat was initially not planned as a family endeavor… Farida and I just wanted to help out our father in this new project for a few months to set up a ground structure for Tharawat. A few years later we are still here! I must confess though that even as a little girl I always wanted to work for my Dad. I used to pretend to do so until he finally took pity on me and gave me some real work. So really I have been working for him for nearly 15 years not 5.
Farida: My father is leading the family business as a whole but in terms of management, Ramia is in charge of the magazine while I run the non-profit Tharawat Family Business Forum. Of course, we constantly work together and also make sure to have regular family council meetings in order to make big decisions together.
What is your first memory of visiting / being exposed to your family business as a child?
Farida: My father has started building his educational advisory business in Switzerland many years ago and the great impression it left with me was how hard he worked. He would constantly come up with new things. I guess where other kids went to see their family business’ production sites, we got to witness Dad’s ideas factory.
Ramia: I think Mum and Dad started really early in our childhood to share information about work with us. I remember Dad used to wrap his work stories and their moral into fables with funny animals for protagonists. It is only years later that I understand how he was giving us insights into his work in a child-friendly way.
Are you currently being groomed to take over the business and if so, what kinds of things are you doing to make sure you are ready?
Farida: Due to the fact that we work in different areas, I think we can say that we are all jointly leading the family business. At this stage as an entrepreneurial family we have fluid involvement, which if needed can be consolidated easily into new leadership structures.
Can you tell us about one challenging moment and one positive moment from the transition process?
Ramia: Our father has always been very generous in the responsibilities he has given us in the business. We never felt like we couldn’t act on our own accord. It has been very encouraging and helped us gain in experience quickly.
Farida: A typical challenging moment would be to doubt our own capability and aptitude to complete a task, I think. Just because you are a family member doesn’t always mean you are the right person for a job, even if sometimes you are the only person for the job.
From your experience how would you have shaped your transition process differently if you could have set it up?
Farida: I think co-founding a business between two generations is an interesting process, since the start-up phase requires you right from the beginning to include the most efficient systems to make it past the first five years. We managed to work things out but it wasn’t without difficulty. I think it is time now to develop more sophisticated systems to get ready for more growth, taking into account everyone’s individual strengths and future expectations.
Do you have a role model? If so who and why?
Ramia: Over the years we have had the pleasure of speaking to many family business leaders. Most of them wouldn’t be recognized by name but only by the companies they run. In their modesty these business families are very inspiring.
Farida: One of my main role models is my mother. Her capability of swiftly analyzing complex situations whilst never forgetting the human factor has always baffled me.
You are working both in a family business as well as with other family businesses. In your opinion, what is special about family businesses in general and being part of a family business in particular?
Farida: I think what has struck me the most is the sense of responsibility and dedication that many family members feel towards their businesses. I think it can lend a very positive aspect to business as a driving force for change.
Ramia: It is important to say that being part of a family business is the best and the worst experience all at the same time. As much as we love it, we do sometimes dislike it because everything hits really close to home. But it is all worth it because ultimately there is an inherent sense of satisfaction in seeing business and family combined under one roof. We have seen this through the family businesses we work with and in our own too. But while it is a worthwhile pursuit, there is nothing romantic about being part of a family business. It is hard work.
How is it to work together as siblings in the family business?
Farida: Working with Ramia has been a very formative experience. You start off working with this person that you think you know, and since she is five years younger than me, I just saw her as my little sister. But then during your work together, you discover this whole other individual that has great talents and drive. So for me it took a little while to reconcile this new aspect of her character with how I viewed her beforehand. But I think few other things will bring you as close to your sibling as running a business together. Make it through the rough patches and you will discover one of the greatest working relationships you could ever have.
Ramia: I totally agree. I think our way of communicating has entirely changed and I can safely say that we would not be as close as we are today had it not been for this joint adventure.
Tharawat Magazine is globally active. In your experience, do you see differences between family businesses around the world (e.g., culture,governance, etc.)?
Ramia: Indeed, through Tharawat magazine we have had the pleasure to work with families from all over the world. There are many factors that shape a family, and yet we always discover commonalities amongst them. The concerns for the next generation and growth, for example, seem universal. The strive for efficient and effective governance systems, too, though they might look very different from place to place. I think you can say that the main topics remain the same, but with slightly different characteristics due to culture.
Did you ever work anywhere outside the family business? How does that experience compare to your work inside the family business? What are similarities and differences? What were some key learnings from that other activity that you took along inside the family business?
Farida: I worked outside the business for a while. Looking back I think the most marked difference is that I did not know so much about my colleagues that working with them became an emotional factor. In the family, you sometimes know too much about the other person, which at times makes discussing certain subjects hard. I was fortunate to have worked in a variety of environments before the family business, and have learnt from very insightful bosses and efficient coworkers.
Ramia: I went straight from my studies into the family business. Through my work with young family business members I see the benefits of gathering external experience before joining. But in my case…I would do it again exactly this way!
Does your family business like to promote the fact that it is family owned and/or run? Why or why not?
Ramia: I think I can speak for all the family if I say that we are actually very proud and happy to be a family business. We believe that if managed properly, we can show our partners and clients that the value behind the business is intact and that we will not shy away from going beyond normal efforts to ensure that something is done right.
Farida: I don’t think we are exactly loud about it but rather want to be known for our professionalism and integrity. Usually, telling clients that we are a family business helps us build strong relationships because they feel like they can trust us.
Why did you decide to join your family business instead of pursuing a different career path (e.g., a regular corporate career or starting your own venture)?
Farida: In my case it very simply was a challenge that I did not want to forego. It was less about working with the family and rather because the position and work really interested me. I might have joined even if it had not been my family’s initiative.
Ramia: I soon discovered that it is a great luxury to be working for people whose values you believe in and whose goals you identify with. I love my family and spending time with them at work was an added incentive.
What were the biggest personal challenges you faced when joining the family business as a family member?
Ramia: I think managing expectations and emotions is the biggest challenge, especially if you have a startup with your family. I had to unlearn the way I communicated with my family until that point. Instead I tried to discipline myself in listening to the others. Listening is the most important skill to have in a family business. I still consciously have to remind myself of being mindful when the going gets rough but it gets easier over the years.
Farida: I am a lawyer and I had to work with my sister and my father who are very different in the way they structure their thinking. I had to do a sort of “rewiring” in the way I explain my thoughts for them to understand what I meant. Now we have found a common ground and it works really well.
What is your advice for other next generation members who are getting ready to join the family business?
Farida: The first piece of advice from my side is that you have to develop understanding and acceptance, before wanting to change anything. Do not jump into the business thinking you can change things right away. If you think of yourself and see how long it might take you to change a habit that you have had for a long time, you have to consider that it is the same for everyone else. So if you want to effect change, you need to build a respectful strategy that allows you to disrupt, but in a positive way.
Ramia: I totally agree with that. I also think that you should try and be yourself. Don’t try and live up to other people’s visions of you but rather find your own rhythm. This goes hand in hand with a healthy portion of self-criticism and a really, really good sense of humor!
What is your next project?
Ramia: We are planning to continue our expansion of Tharawat magazine globally and report on family businesses around the world. We are going to explore new channels in communicating content to our readers and followers and are excited about it.
Farida: We are keen on bringing the latest in cutting edge good practice to family businesses in order to ensure their sustainability in the long run.
Can you tell us something about your background: Where and how did you grow up?
Farida: We were born and raised in the Swiss-German part of Switzerland by our Dutch mother and our Egyptian father. I studied law in Fribourg and was admitted to the Swiss bar in 2008. Ramia studied management sciences and later moved to the UK to go to business school for her Masters degree.
When and how was your family business started? Which generation is currently leading the business?
Ramia: My father and mother have always been entrepreneurs, and for most of our lives we have been involved in their activities in one way or another. However, setting up Tharawat was initially not planned as a family endeavor… Farida and I just wanted to help out our father in this new project for a few months to set up a ground structure for Tharawat. A few years later we are still here! I must confess though that even as a little girl I always wanted to work for my Dad. I used to pretend to do so until he finally took pity on me and gave me some real work. So really I have been working for him for nearly 15 years not 5.
Farida: My father is leading the family business as a whole but in terms of management, Ramia is in charge of the magazine while I run the non-profit Tharawat Family Business Forum. Of course, we constantly work together and also make sure to have regular family council meetings in order to make big decisions together.
What is your first memory of visiting / being exposed to your family business as a child?
Farida: My father has started building his educational advisory business in Switzerland many years ago and the great impression it left with me was how hard he worked. He would constantly come up with new things. I guess where other kids went to see their family business’ production sites, we got to witness Dad’s ideas factory.
Ramia: I think Mum and Dad started really early in our childhood to share information about work with us. I remember Dad used to wrap his work stories and their moral into fables with funny animals for protagonists. It is only years later that I understand how he was giving us insights into his work in a child-friendly way.
Are you currently being groomed to take over the business and if so, what kinds of things are you doing to make sure you are ready?
Farida: Due to the fact that we work in different areas, I think we can say that we are all jointly leading the family business. At this stage as an entrepreneurial family we have fluid involvement, which if needed can be consolidated easily into new leadership structures.
Can you tell us about one challenging moment and one positive moment from the transition process?
Ramia: Our father has always been very generous in the responsibilities he has given us in the business. We never felt like we couldn’t act on our own accord. It has been very encouraging and helped us gain in experience quickly.
Farida: A typical challenging moment would be to doubt our own capability and aptitude to complete a task, I think. Just because you are a family member doesn’t always mean you are the right person for a job, even if sometimes you are the only person for the job.
From your experience how would you have shaped your transition process differently if you could have set it up?
Farida: I think co-founding a business between two generations is an interesting process, since the start-up phase requires you right from the beginning to include the most efficient systems to make it past the first five years. We managed to work things out but it wasn’t without difficulty. I think it is time now to develop more sophisticated systems to get ready for more growth, taking into account everyone’s individual strengths and future expectations.
Do you have a role model? If so who and why?
Ramia: Over the years we have had the pleasure of speaking to many family business leaders. Most of them wouldn’t be recognized by name but only by the companies they run. In their modesty these business families are very inspiring.
Farida: One of my main role models is my mother. Her capability of swiftly analyzing complex situations whilst never forgetting the human factor has always baffled me.
You are working both in a family business as well as with other family businesses. In your opinion, what is special about family businesses in general and being part of a family business in particular?
Farida: I think what has struck me the most is the sense of responsibility and dedication that many family members feel towards their businesses. I think it can lend a very positive aspect to business as a driving force for change.
Ramia: It is important to say that being part of a family business is the best and the worst experience all at the same time. As much as we love it, we do sometimes dislike it because everything hits really close to home. But it is all worth it because ultimately there is an inherent sense of satisfaction in seeing business and family combined under one roof. We have seen this through the family businesses we work with and in our own too. But while it is a worthwhile pursuit, there is nothing romantic about being part of a family business. It is hard work.
How is it to work together as siblings in the family business?
Farida: Working with Ramia has been a very formative experience. You start off working with this person that you think you know, and since she is five years younger than me, I just saw her as my little sister. But then during your work together, you discover this whole other individual that has great talents and drive. So for me it took a little while to reconcile this new aspect of her character with how I viewed her beforehand. But I think few other things will bring you as close to your sibling as running a business together. Make it through the rough patches and you will discover one of the greatest working relationships you could ever have.
Ramia: I totally agree. I think our way of communicating has entirely changed and I can safely say that we would not be as close as we are today had it not been for this joint adventure.
Tharawat Magazine is globally active. In your experience, do you see differences between family businesses around the world (e.g., culture,governance, etc.)?
Ramia: Indeed, through Tharawat magazine we have had the pleasure to work with families from all over the world. There are many factors that shape a family, and yet we always discover commonalities amongst them. The concerns for the next generation and growth, for example, seem universal. The strive for efficient and effective governance systems, too, though they might look very different from place to place. I think you can say that the main topics remain the same, but with slightly different characteristics due to culture.
Did you ever work anywhere outside the family business? How does that experience compare to your work inside the family business? What are similarities and differences? What were some key learnings from that other activity that you took along inside the family business?
Farida: I worked outside the business for a while. Looking back I think the most marked difference is that I did not know so much about my colleagues that working with them became an emotional factor. In the family, you sometimes know too much about the other person, which at times makes discussing certain subjects hard. I was fortunate to have worked in a variety of environments before the family business, and have learnt from very insightful bosses and efficient coworkers.
Ramia: I went straight from my studies into the family business. Through my work with young family business members I see the benefits of gathering external experience before joining. But in my case…I would do it again exactly this way!
Does your family business like to promote the fact that it is family owned and/or run? Why or why not?
Ramia: I think I can speak for all the family if I say that we are actually very proud and happy to be a family business. We believe that if managed properly, we can show our partners and clients that the value behind the business is intact and that we will not shy away from going beyond normal efforts to ensure that something is done right.
Farida: I don’t think we are exactly loud about it but rather want to be known for our professionalism and integrity. Usually, telling clients that we are a family business helps us build strong relationships because they feel like they can trust us.
Why did you decide to join your family business instead of pursuing a different career path (e.g., a regular corporate career or starting your own venture)?
Farida: In my case it very simply was a challenge that I did not want to forego. It was less about working with the family and rather because the position and work really interested me. I might have joined even if it had not been my family’s initiative.
Ramia: I soon discovered that it is a great luxury to be working for people whose values you believe in and whose goals you identify with. I love my family and spending time with them at work was an added incentive.
What were the biggest personal challenges you faced when joining the family business as a family member?
Ramia: I think managing expectations and emotions is the biggest challenge, especially if you have a startup with your family. I had to unlearn the way I communicated with my family until that point. Instead I tried to discipline myself in listening to the others. Listening is the most important skill to have in a family business. I still consciously have to remind myself of being mindful when the going gets rough but it gets easier over the years.
Farida: I am a lawyer and I had to work with my sister and my father who are very different in the way they structure their thinking. I had to do a sort of “rewiring” in the way I explain my thoughts for them to understand what I meant. Now we have found a common ground and it works really well.
What is your advice for other next generation members who are getting ready to join the family business?
Farida: The first piece of advice from my side is that you have to develop understanding and acceptance, before wanting to change anything. Do not jump into the business thinking you can change things right away. If you think of yourself and see how long it might take you to change a habit that you have had for a long time, you have to consider that it is the same for everyone else. So if you want to effect change, you need to build a respectful strategy that allows you to disrupt, but in a positive way.
Ramia: I totally agree with that. I also think that you should try and be yourself. Don’t try and live up to other people’s visions of you but rather find your own rhythm. This goes hand in hand with a healthy portion of self-criticism and a really, really good sense of humor!
What is your next project?
Ramia: We are planning to continue our expansion of Tharawat magazine globally and report on family businesses around the world. We are going to explore new channels in communicating content to our readers and followers and are excited about it.
Farida: We are keen on bringing the latest in cutting edge good practice to family businesses in order to ensure their sustainability in the long run.
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